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Talk:Bonjwa

Dates[edit]

We could easily add dates to the bonjwa status of each of these players, and it is important information, considering the "there can be only one" characteristic of bonjwa status.

I humbly submit:

No Bonjwa: launch-2000

BoxeR: 2000-2003

NaDa: 2003-2004

iloveoov: 2004-2005

sAviOr: 2005-2007

No bonjwa: 2007-2008

Flash: 2008-present

TexSC 07:55, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I went ahead and added this TexSC 12:32, 25 June 2011 (KST)

Edit wars -__-[edit]

Please remove Jaedong out of there. If there has been THAT long period of time that all were doubting about Flash, to finally put him into the list... Then I think if Jae has to ever reach this, we could wait for at least equal time to put his name there. 85.141.103.194 18:22, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Flash[edit]

Needs to be on the list. Haters may QQ, but he is the only player ever with ELO in the 2400's. C'mon!

- agreed. With his ROFLSTOMP on Jaedong in the lastest MSL, I think we can confidently say he's Bonjwa status
- You'd have to be blind to think that there is anything close to a consensus on this issue. But thanks for your supporting argument that people who think different are "haters" and ELO is a measure of bonjwa-ness. Liquipedia isn't the place for bias and fanboyism.
Totally agreed, Liquipedia isn't the place to discuss bonjwa status for anyone. There is no hard-cut measure but the universal acclaim of the community which makes a bonjwa and Flash simply doesn't have it. Maybe the age of bonjwas is past, maybe not, but for now, Flash's not on the list. --Aesop 17:53, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
I think that probably he'll gain that acclaim after some time. For he's becoming more and more dominant. Probably this acclaim though will happen only after his time of dominance.
Quote: There is no hard-cut measure but the universal acclaim of the community which makes a bonjwa and Flash simply doesn't have it.
Now has. It's kinda confirmed. :) In korean talks it was mentioned countless times. And everyone of nonkorean, not only me, thinks too that he deserves it. :)
Since Flash has been added to the list, shouldn't he be removed from the near-bonjwa section?--Urashimakt 19:09, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I see it's done, but not yet confirmed as "stable page version".
Now confirmed.
I don't understand why you would put Flash in before Jaedong when Jaedong has had a longer and more dominant career, especially at his peak. Jaedong peaked a year or two before Flash did, which is before so many people actually followed (and thus fail to understand). Moreover, Jaedong still has the second most OSL/MSL wins of all time (behind Nada), and has more silvers than Flash does and I do believe more top 4/8 appearances, as well. Further, he has the highest vs P and vs Z ELO ever achieved by any player, compared to Flash who only has the edge at vs T. There's absolutely no excuse for Flash to be in here when Jaedong isn't. This is a classic case of "what have you done for me lately" with so many people ignorant to the past few years. Flash has held #1 Terran for 18 months straight; Jaedong has held it for 34 months straight. How can you possibly sit there and tell me Jaedong didn't stay "dominant for a long enough time to attain Bonjwa status," but Flash did? It's ridiculous.
This somewhat disturbs me. Go into any Korean forums, they say the Bonjwa era died when TBLS age came along. Thus there are no bonjwas after Savior. Sure, TBLS can be considered as Bonjwa (and would have been if they kept using the term) but no one was as powerful/dominant as Savior after his time.

July[edit]

If July was the first person to be called a bonjwa why isn't he listed under the history of them, surely rather than picking a random time period that a player needs to be dominant for we should use July's dominance/success as the standard for Bonjwa status as he was the first programmer to gain this title?

Getting the nickname "Bonjwa" is different from gaining the status bonjwa. There is no hard-cut reason for this, but rather a matter of "spontaneous acclamation", which was obvious for the four mentioned, but not as obvious for July. --Aesop 20:13, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
July and Bisu are somewhat similar in terms of "bonjwaness". Both revolutionized their race's play (July's muta stack, Bisu's FE-corsairs-DTs), but both weren't the one dominant players for some long time.


flash[edit]

I actually agree with this as well


Original Message From SushilS:

Hey! Ghostclaw after checking the bonjwa list on LP, I saw that Flash was listed as the 5th bonjwa. My issue with this is that beside that interviewer and a few random joking references to him being more than a bonjwa(god) noone in ground-zero-Korea actually seems to think so. I have a Korean friend who told me that the results of this year were what wud cement his position as Bonjwa or not. And a lotta korean fans do NOT consider him a Bonjwa as yet.
Afterall he has had 1 year of dominance agreed, but when this years apparently zerg-favored-map-pool came out he has failed to show his mettle as he did last year on supposedly Terran favored maps.
Please clarify his bonjwa status is not based on some interviewer labelling him as such.

P.S: IMO being called bonjwa is something more than statistics. It has a lot to do with "power" and the extent & period of dominance and also a special characteristic that sets him apart as not just a progamer but something more.

If absolute dominance lasts for only a single season/year then it is easy for the nay-sayers to point maps out as the reason for the dominance. However when the ABSOLUTE dominance is shown over new map-pools(e.g:Savior-Who dominated even during clearly unfavourable maps) then the case for bonjwa-ness becomes much stronger.

GHOSTCLAW 00:13, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Rating images[edit]

The source for the rating images seems to have disappeared :/ --)343( 03:25, 21 July 2012 (KST)